On this week’s episode of “The David Frum Show,” The Atlantic’s David Frum discusses the American seizure of Venezuelan dictator Nicolás Maduro and President Donald Trump’s deeply flawed thinking about Venezuelan oil. David argues that Trump’s worldview of exploitation and predation is likely to doom his ambitions in Venezuela rather than secure them.
David is then joined by the national-security analyst David Rothkopf to examine the U.S. military operation in Venezuela and the Trump administration’s alarming lack of a coherent plan for what comes next. Rothkopf explores what it means for a president to sideline or altogether ignore the National Security Council before launching a major military action. Together, Rothkopf and Frum speculate about possible outcomes of the Maduro operation that Trump appears not to have considered.
Finally, David closes with his thoughts on Rudyard Kipling’s “Recessional” and the poem’s warning about national boasting, overreach, and the perils of collective foolishness.
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00:00 Introduction
01:10 Opening Thoughts on U.S. Military Action in Venezuela
09:28 David Rothkopf
11:52 The Role and Decline of the National Security Council
25:56 Current Administration's Disarray
29:35 Trump's Threats to Other Leaders
31:36 US-Venezuela Relations and Oil Politics
32:27 Geopolitical Implications of US Actions
36:39 National Security Council's Role and Challenges
37:45 Trump's Doctrine and Historical Context
47:58 The Importance of Policy Processes
51:45 Rudyard Kipling’s “Recessional”